Rapbold & Vogel (Ruprecht)

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Ich spreche nicht oder lese Deutsch, benutze ich ein Computerübersetzungsprogramm.

Ich suche Informationen über meine RUPRECHT Familie, die in Waldbach, Marbach, Weinsberg, in Wurttemberg von ungefähr 1700 gelebt hat.

Es dürfte mehr Ruprechts gegeben haben, der nach Australien nicht gekommen ist, als meine Familie 1858 auf das Schiff „Armin“ hereingekommen ist.

Der Anfang von meinem Stammbaum beginnt mit John Fredrich Ruprecht geborene 1799 (oder 1811) und Maria Fredericke Krust geborene 1793 (oder 1815), gibt es eine Debatte in meiner Familie bezüglich des richtigen Datums.

Sie haben in 1829 in Waldbach, Neckarkreis, Wurttemberg, geheiratet und haben 2 Kinder John Martin geborene 1832 und Martin Christopher geborene 1837 gehabt. Es dürfte einen anderen Sohn Gustav gegeben haben, der ein Zwilling die die Jungen von von einem gewesen wäre, aber ich habe keine Informationen über ihn, deshalb denke ich, dass er gestorben sein dürfte.

Weiß jemand von meiner Familie? Kann jemand irgendeinen besonderen Websites empfehlen, wo ich mehr Informationen finden dürfte?

Es gibt Rede in meiner Familie, dass der Vater von Johann Fredrichs in einem Krieg von der Zeit kämpfte, und ist gestorben. Sein Eigentum (Land, Gebäude usw) war eine Quelle großer Teilung unter seinen Söhnen, und dies ist angeblich, warum Johann und seine Familie nach Sydney NSW Australien in 1858 gekommen ist. Wie kann ich mehr um dies herausfinden?

Gibt es Friedhöfe in oder um Waldbach oder Marbach der Vater von wo Johann könnte vergraben werden?

Vielen Dank für irgendeine Hilfe,

Frau Tal Gough


_________________
Dale Gough



Hi there!

... maybe it helps ...

http://www.krust.info/modules.php?op=mo ... page_id=35

Greetings angeleye


Thank you for recommending that Krust website. I have found some of my ancestors there, and Mr Krust's information had meant now that I have proof and validation on the two people who were on top of my family tree - they aren't now, I have several generations before them.
_________________
Dale Gough



from Dale again:

Zitat:

You have helped me greatly in the past and again look to you for some more help.



I am trying to get information on the Rapbold family - John Rapbold born 1810? in Wurttemberg married Rosina Mannheim born 1814? in Wurttemberg, in Wurttemberg and had a daughter Fredericka Rapbold in Wurttemberg. She came out to Australia in the late 1850's, married Martin Christopher Ruprecht in 1860 in New South Wales.



Also looking for information regarding a Sarah Barbara Vogel born 1836? in Wurttemberg, I do not know about her parents. She migrated to Australia in 1857, and her last residence was Ilsfeld Auenstein, county Marbach in Wurttemberg.



When she arrived in Australia she married John Martin Ruprecht (brother of Martin Christopher) in 1858 in New South Wales.,



Finally looking for a picture of the barque Johann Caesar which arrived in Australia mid - late 1850's on which some of my relatives arrived. I do have a picture of a boat in an article about the Johann Caesar, but am not sure if it just a picture, or the Johann Caesar.



Thank you for any information



Dale Gough
maybe, hereis another member of the community, that can help you. I m sorry - i personally have no time at the moment...wish you all the best and many answers. Greetings

4. FRIEDERIKA3 DANNENHAUER (JOH. DAVID2, JACOB1) was born April 09, 1813 in Hinterweisbuch (Vorderweißbuch), Württemberg, Germany, and died January 04, 1862 in Schornbach, Württemberg, Germany. She married JOHANN CHRISTOPH RABOLD November 09, 1835 in Oppelsbohm, Württemberg, Germany. He was born November 06, 1789 in Birkenweißbuch, Württemberg, Germany, and died January 03, 1860 in Birkenweißbuch, Württemberg, Germany.

Children of FRIEDERIKA DANNENHAUER and JOHANN RABOLD are:

i. GOTTLOB4 RABOLD, b. August 16, 1836, Birkenweißbuch, Württemberg, Germany; d. Aft. 1852, United States.

ii. FRIEDERICKE RABOLD, b. December 14, 1837, Birkenweißbuch, Württemberg, Germany.

9. iii. JOHANN RABOLD, b. February 07, 1839, Birkenweißbuch, Württemberg, Germany; d. 1897, Birkenweißbuch?, Württemberg, Germany.

iv. ANNA BARBARA RABOLD, b. September 11, 1840, Birkenweißbuch, Württemberg, Germany; m. ?, 1871, Birkenweißbuch?, Württemberg, Germany.

v. KAROLINA RABOLD, b. January 23, 1842, Birkenweißbuch, Württemberg, Germany; m. GOTTLIEB KURZ, 1873, Birkenweißbuch, Württemberg, Germany.

10. vi. ANNA MARIA RABOLD, b. July 28, 1843, Birkenweißbuch, Württemberg, Germany.

vii. WILHELM RABOLD, b. January 11, 1845, Birkenweißbuch, Württemberg, Germany; d. Aft. June 07, 1900, Philadelphia, Pennsylvania; m. MARGARET, Abt. 1870, likely Philadelphia, Pennsylvania; b. February 1852, Pennsylvania; d. Aft. June 07, 1900, Philadelphia, Pennsylvania.

11. viii. JOHN RABOLD, b. September 17, 1846, Birkenweißbuch, Württemberg, Germany; d. Aft. June 1900, likely Philadelphia, Pennsylvania.

ix. CHRISTOPH RABOLD, b. March 09, 1850, Birkenweißbuch, Württemberg, Germany; m. (1) ? FIRST, 1873, Birkenweißbuch, Württemberg, Germany; m. (2) ? SECOND, 1882, Birkenweißbuch, Württemberg, Germany.

x. ROSINA RABOLD, b. March 19, 1851, Birkenweißbuch, Württemberg, Germany; m. ?, November 18, 1873, Birkenweißbuch, Württemberg, Germany.

xi. HEINRICH RABOLD, b. March 27, 1859, Birkenweißbuch, Württemberg, Germany; m. ?, November 02, 1886, Birkenweißbuch, Württemberg, Germany.

...

http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.anc ... _david.htm

Johann Christoph Rabold left Germany in 1872.

https://www2.landesarchiv-bw.de/ofs21/o ... &standort=

http://search.ancestry.de/cgi-bin/sse.d ... o=2&gst=40

Is it possible that they came from germany to the us and later to australia?

Johann Caesar


... admin


Hello there, Dale Gough from Australia again!

Firstly thank you for the great Rapholt information. I now have 350 Ruprecht's in my family tree, and 14 Generations.

Secondly, I am trying to contact a Gottleib Ruprecht from Krauchenweis. I have rung the phone number and the phone appears to be busy all the time. Gottleib was visited by my 3rd cousin, a lady called Sue from Taree NSW, in the early 1990's I think and she tells of Gottleib being sure that he is related to the Taree Ruprecht's. All I have is part of a brochure of Gottleib's from his workplace, he appears to be a white collar worker, architect or designer or such just by looking at the photo on the brochure. I am looking for an email address to ask him what he knows about the Ruprecht family. Whilst I have information that with my starting family group (Albrecht Ruprecht and his wives,) he had two sons, one was Johann Friedrich (my side of the family) and the other son was Johann Christian (he had a couple of wives too). So I am rather foolishly assuming that Gottleib may be from that side, even though I know there are THOUSANDS of Ruprechts in your part of Germany, let alone probaly millions in Germany itself!

If you can transcribe this into better than my computer programme German and throw it over to the other Forum members I would be very appreciative.

Thank you for your past and hopefully present help in my genealogical matters,

Mrs Dale Gough

_________________
Dale Gough


in Germany the "white pages" are called "Telefonbuch" or for regional search "Das Örtliche".

http://www.dasoertliche.de/Controller?k ... search_nat

Could we see the part of your brochure, maybe it would help us.
You could upload it from your computer. click on the disk above.


Zitat:
I have rung the phone number and the phone appears to be busy all the time.

Which phone number?

...and english is not a problem for us. :29:

bye
angeleye


Hello there again, In reply to your last email first the number I tried to ring was from Australia :

0011 49 7576 929709

for the Gottfried (sorry in my last email I got his name wrong) Ruprecht in Habsthahl Str 72505 Krauchenweis.

The brochure I could send (I am looking for it after this email) in another note.

I am so glad english is ok with you, as I tend to run on and on and maybe my computer translation programme gets things a bit mixed up.

I have another problematic set of relatives upon which I would like your advice. any other sites to look at, people to email etc.

Firstly: Sarah Barbara Vogel, born 1839 in Auenstein, I do not have her parents names, places or dates and would like them. Sarah came to Australia in 1857, and married John Martin Ruprecht in Taree NSW Australia in 1858.

Secondly: (Any of these names except the Ruprecht) Rosina Mannheim born supposedly in Germany in 1814, married John (Johann) Rapbold/Rapbolt/Rapholt/Raphold etc (the name seems to have been changed every season), born supposedly in 1810 in Germany, and they had a child Fredericka Rosina Rapbold etc. born 1835 ish in Germany. Now this Fredericka Rosina Rapbold etc married Martin Christopher Ruprecht in 1860 in Taree NSW.
I have this theory that maybe Rosina was FROM Mannheim, and John Rapbold and Rosina go to the church and announce their intentions and she says she is from Mannheim, so she is put down as Rosina Mannheim, as any documentation I have has NO parents at all for either of them. You can see this particular problem is driving me CRAZY!

I have gone throught Ancestry.de (I am a member) and found nothing, also tried the Latter Day Saints site, again nothing. Of course I am not fully aware of what is on the Ancestry.de page as my German is close to non existant.

Thanks for everything,

"Dale" Gough

_________________
Dale Gough


Hi again, I wanted to thank you for the Rabold info sent, the dates do not dovetail with my (not verified yet) information, but will keep it in mind. Thanks, Dale

_________________
Dale Gough


Hello there again Angeleye,

I have rung the phone number I sent you, and a lady (his wife) answered. I had the right number but Gottfried was sick in hospital apparently very ill in the head she said (brain tumour?)

Basically their son works in the same place, a place called Ruprecht Lackierung Lohle & Ruprecht OHG as she asked me if I sent an email to the company (I did last night!!!!!!) requesting information from Gottfried etc., as the son talked of the email to her.

I have asked her to ask her son to reply re the family tree and will get the email translated at my end as she thought the son could not do an English email.

The brochure I had was printed in 1981 and basically it says

Gottfried Ruprecht, Werkstatten fur
Lackierung Baumaleral .........
7482 Krauchenweis 1 telephon 07576/208

So that is what has gone on so far, depending on what I get from the son, I will probably require your assistance again.

"Dale" Gough

_________________
Dale Gough


Zitat:
Hello there again, In reply to your last email first the number I tried to ring was from Australia :

0011 49 7576 929709


problem solved - cause you have now a person to contact at:

http://www.ruprecht-werbetechnik.de/ind ... =impressum

Zitat:
for the Gottfried (sorry in my last email I got his name wrong) Ruprecht in Habsthahl Str 72505 Krauchenweis.


no problem

Zitat:
The brochure I could send (I am looking for it after this email) in another note.


Problem solved - we know the company

Ruprecht Lackierung
Löhle & Ruprecht ohG

Zitat:
I have another problematic set of relatives upon which I would like your advice. any other sites to look at, people to email etc.

Firstly: Sarah Barbara Vogel, born 1839 in Auenstein, I do not have her parents names, places or dates and would like them. Sarah came to Australia in 1857, and married John Martin Ruprecht in Taree NSW Australia in 1858.

Secondly: (Any of these names except the Ruprecht) Rosina Mannheim born supposedly in Germany in 1814, married John (Johann) Rapbold/Rapbolt/Rapholt/Raphold etc (the name seems to have been changed every season), born supposedly in 1810 in Germany, and they had a child Fredericka Rosina Rapbold etc. born 1835 ish in Germany. Now this Fredericka Rosina Rapbold etc married Martin Christopher Ruprecht in 1860 in Taree NSW.
I have this theory that maybe Rosina was FROM Mannheim, and John Rapbold and Rosina go to the church and announce their intentions and she says she is from Mannheim, so she is put down as Rosina Mannheim, as any documentation I have has NO parents at all for either of them. You can see this particular problem is driving me CRAZY!

I have gone throught Ancestry.de (I am a member) and found nothing, also tried the Latter Day Saints site, again nothing. Of course I am not fully aware of what is on the Ancestry.de page as my German is close to non existant.


let us see, what we can do...

Zitat:
the son could not do an English email


He don´t speak english?

angeleye


Zitat:
Sarah Barbara Vogel, born 1839 in Auenstein


Auenstein in Switzerland? If so then you will find informations at hte state archive Aargau (Aarau)
http://www.ag.ch/staatsarchiv/de/pub/

Write to:

Staatsarchiv Aargau
Entfelderstrasse 22 / Buchenhof
5001 Aarau
Tel. 062 835 12 90
Switzerland


Zitat:
I have this theory that maybe Rosina was FROM Mannheim, and John Rapbold and Rosina go to the church and announce their intentions and she says she is from Mannheim, so she is put down as Rosina Mannheim, as any documentation I have has NO parents at all for either of them. You can see this particular problem is driving me CRAZY!


everything is possible. Which surname she had first? Which is the birthname? Tell us everything you know.


Zitat:
I have gone throught Ancestry.de (I am a member) and found nothing, also tried the Latter Day Saints site, again nothing. Of course I am not fully aware of what is on the Ancestry.de page as my German is close to non existant.


we will check other sources of, if you give us details (birth year, and so on).

angeleye


Hello Angel Eye
Thank you for your reply.
I may have told you, but I did ring the phone number from here, and the wife told me that her husband was "krank" in the "koph" (head) in hospital. (excuse my very poor German)
And she said her son worked at the place that I emailed (Ruprecht Lackierung Lohle & Ruprecht), and she thinks he has not enough english to reply, so I said reply in German, and I will get it translated.
She told me their son's name but I couldn't quite "catch it" and she was obviously worried about her husband, her english, my even worse German, and some stranger trying to contact him too I suppose, so I did not ask for the son's name again!
I have not received an email from the son as yet.
They may be talking to Gottfried, but if it is a brain tumour (my husband died from one 8 years ago) my experience tells me that Gottfried may not be making as much sense as he would like to, depending on the duration of the illness. I hope that Gottfried in the past has a written version of the family tree and documentation. A brain tumour is a very nasty thing to happen to a man.
If I do not get an email or communication from them, maybe you can repeat my request in German? I could do the email again in computer translated German but the context may be not as fluent as a human German translation.
Now to Sarah Barbara Vogel: all I have is she was born 22 April 1839 in Auenstein (there are several places of that name I realise), and that she came to Australia in June 1857 with 150 gilders in money, I got the information about the money from the internet, I cannot remember where! - but am trying to back-track my steps to find out), but have from the Wurttemberg Emigration Index (Ancestry.de) Sarah from district Marbach, same information and number 838272.
I also have two more Vogel's (relatives perhaps?) from the same Wurttemberg Emigration Index; Fredericke born 16 Jan 1830 in Auenstein, emigration date 1870 to Austria, number 838278; and David Michael born unknown in Auenstein, emigration date Feb 1858 to Austria, number 838273. Could the destination place be a "typo"? for Australia?
Now to Rosina Mannheim 1810-1816 ?: All I have is from Ancestry.de (searching through the family trees there) a Ruprecht Family Tree and a Williams Family Tree, on which the daughter Fredericka Rosine Rapbold, with her parents as John Rapbold and Rosina Mannheim and Fredericka is born "about 1836", thus making Rosina and John by calculation being born approx 1810-1816. I have found up to 4 different spellings of Rapbold, and of course the spelling depends on the transcriber of the handwritten text, or even indeed the way that the surname was spelt by the person themselves.
I have found 3 different spellings of "Ruprecht" in the life of one of my relatives, born Rupricht, married Rupracht, died Ruprecht, and in one case the handwritten documentation of one male Ruprecht, he put his name on WW1 Australian Army enlistment papers as Rupright.
Thank you for all your assistance so far, Dale Gough

_________________
Dale Gough


Hi!

http://online-ofb.de/famreport.php?ofb= ... s=&lang=de
http://www.online-ofb.de/namelist.php?o ... s=&lang=es
http://www.ortsfamilienbuecher.de/namel ... name=VOGEL

This is all i found in Baden-Württemberg about "Vogel".
No "Barbara Vogel", Sarah Vogel" "Sarah Barbara Vogel" found.

Marbach is the place who she emigrated. The birthplace is "Auenstein" but, is it Auenstein in Germany (Baden-Württemberg) or in Switzerland...

I will see what i can find about the other persons....

angeleye


Hi Angel Eye,

I have additional information on her from http://www.auswanderer-bw.de.

It is : Emigrant ID - 2521, First Name - Sara (no "h") Barbara, Last Name - Vogel, Last Place of Residence - Ilsfeld, District - Auenstein, Marital Status - led ??, etc, Date of Emigration Jun 30, Year of Emigration - 1857, Country of Destination - Australia, Capital 150 fl, County - Marbach, Archive - Hauptstaatsarchiv Stuttgart.

I did get the money wrong, but still she took money with her, whereas others in my tree have had to be assisted by their community to go to Australia.

Seeing that she had money with her, would that mean she was an UNASSISTED passenger, or an ASSISTED passenger? In steerage or perhaps sharing a cabin?

I have been going thru the Latter Day Saints Site (Pilot) again and found an

Anna Barbara Vogel christened 21 Apr 1839 in Evangelisch, Frickenhausen, Schwarzwaldkreis, Wurttemberg, Residence as Frickhausen, Birth Date as 19 Apr 1839, with father as Johannes Vogel born 11/11/1802, and mother as Maria Agnes Stephan born 3/8/1804, and married 1828.

WHAT A COINCIDENCE. Seeing that I have found NO Sarah Barbara Vogel's born April 22 1839, could she have changed her name to emigrate? She emigrated at age 18, several questions and scenarios spring to mind.

Was she kicked out of the family home? Did she know John Martin Ruprecht (husband she married in Australia) in Germany ? How did she have so much money when in those times money was not easy to come by and save? Would the 150 fl be a wedding dowry?

Well there is something for me think about instead of the seeminlg relentless task to find Rosina Mannheim! John Rapbold! and Sarah Barbara Vogel! . I have tried numerous different spellings of their names and still not come up with much.

Talk to you later,

"Dale" Gough

_________________
Dale Gough

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Hi again!

Zitat:
It is : Emigrant ID - 2521, First Name - Sara (no "h") Barbara, Last Name - Vogel, Last Place of Residence - Ilsfeld, District - Auenstein, Marital Status - led ??, etc, Date of Emigration Jun 30, Year of Emigration - 1857, Country of Destination - Australia, Capital 150 fl, County - Marbach, Archive - Hauptstaatsarchiv Stuttgart.


You should search for the ship, then look for an "John Martin Ruprecht" - maybe they left together germany. She wasn ´t married, led. = ledig = not married. In Ilsfeld she lived?

Zitat:
Seeing that she had money with her, would that mean she was an UNASSISTED passenger, or an ASSISTED passenger? In steerage or perhaps sharing a cabin?


I think that all passengers had to declare ....

Zitat:
Anna Barbara Vogel christened 21 Apr 1839 in Evangelisch, Frickenhausen, Schwarzwaldkreis, Wurttemberg, Residence as Frickhausen, Birth Date as 19 Apr 1839, with father as Johannes Vogel born 11/11/1802, and mother as Maria Agnes Stephan born 3/8/1804, and married 1828.

WHAT A COINCIDENCE. Seeing that I have found NO Sarah Barbara Vogel's born April 22 1839, could she have changed her name to emigrate? She emigrated at age 18, several questions and scenarios spring to mind.


birth date: 19 apr., christend 1 apr. thats possible.

Zitat:
I have been going thru the Latter Day Saints Site (Pilot) again and found an

Anna Barbara Vogel christened 21 Apr 1839 in Evangelisch, Frickenhausen, Schwarzwaldkreis, Wurttemberg, Residence as Frickhausen, Birth Date as 19 Apr 1839, with father as Johannes Vogel born 11/11/1802, and mother as Maria Agnes Stephan born 3/8/1804, and married 1828.

WHAT A COINCIDENCE. Seeing that I have found NO Sarah Barbara Vogel's born April 22 1839, could she have changed her name to emigrate? She emigrated at age 18, several questions and scenarios spring to mind.


Searching for ancestors is always a crazy idea.

ANNA MARIA VOGEL
Christening: 21 APR 1839 Evangelisch, Frickenhausen, Schwarzwaldkreis, Wuerttemberg

no - she would never change the name in this way

ok - now we have some more informations. Today i have to do other things, but tomorrow...

angeleye


Hi Dale!

It´s me again.

We know that Sara Barbara Vogels birth date is 22.ap.1836 and the birth place is Auenstein/Ilsfeld. She had a child as she left germany.
Maybe she was married twice? Maybe it was a "bastard" - and the parents did not accept that.

http://www.auswanderer-bw.de/auswandere ... c9bd50192a

This is the adress of the church archive (Landeskirchliches Archiv Stuttgart)

Churchbooks Auenstein/Ilsfeld

http://www.archiv.elk-wue.de/cms/starts ... -research/

I although found this record in the emigration indey of Baden-Württemberg

Johann (Josef?) Mannheim from Kirchheim unter Teck left germany in 1854, Destination Moreton, New South Wales

I think that is all i can do for you.

Best wishes and good luck

angeleye


Thank you Angel Eye for the information.

How did you find out about the child she had before leaving Germany?

Did she bring the child with her? Or was the child left in the care of someone else in the homeland (mother, girlfriend, grandparents)? Maybe the child died on the voyage if "it" was sickly, or if Sara didn't produce enough milk. What Teddybär was "it"? I hate calling "it" an "it" when "it" would have it's very own identity.

I like to know these things so I may be able to do the research myself in the future.

I brought up the Church archives site and wasn't sure what to do there as it is in German.

If I put the name VOGEL in the search box what should happen? When I did that, it said there were no (keine) Vogel's.

Can you tell me where to put her name to search, and which boxes to tick or click etc?

My reading of the German language is so poor, could you see the church archive of Sarah Vogel when you were in there?

I will now go back to my ships arriving in Sydney list for 1857 and see if I can narrow down a few more ships.

Would I be right in assuming that once the single females arrived (with prospect of marriage anyway - on a promise or predetermination made in Germany) in Sydney, they would be married within the month? I am assuming this in regard to when the ships docked there and when I have the records of marriage for the ladies.

Anyway, have a great Christmas, I am not too Christmassy normally, and I look forward to dealing with you next year, I am sure I will have questions for you then.

Dale Gough

_________________
Dale Gough


Hi Dale!

go to this site:

http://www.auswanderer-bw.de/auswandere ... c9bd50192a

On the right you see "erweitert" (advanced search). you just have to use Vogel for your search. Anzahl der Kinder 1 means how many childs...

he/or she was on the ship....no more details.

The second link (churchbooks Auenstein) is in english

http://www.archiv.elk-wue.de/cms/starts ... -research/

In Germany its not possible to get informations of the church books online. You can visit it or you write letter to the church archive.

You should write to the church archive. Tell them all you know and ask for birth certificate in detail (sometimes there are notices added) and marriage certificate. This is the next step to find the parents or childs or maybe a husband.

You should search for informations of sara´s immigration. Maybe there are some more details on the immigration form.

I can´t give you answers - you ll have to find out. Good luck.

Bye

Have a great xmas too.

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